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Revelation 16:12-21 ...'And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.'

In reading about this battle I see that little in the way of weapons are mentioned.  In books on the "endtimes" it seems to be treated as an iron battle with tanks and guns.  I notice too that many of the symbols listed are often taken literal or taken to represent technology. Frankly, I think the battle of Rev. 16 is largely a spiritual battle and is ongoing.  This is not to say that physical battles will not take place on the surface of the earth but the battle is largely a battle between truth and error...and spiritual. 

If we look at some of the items in Rev. 16 we see things like "garments", which are representing purity and such. And these are no more speaking of literal clothing than the armor of Ephesians 6 is actual material armor.  We also see apocalyptic metaphors such as "and every island fled".  What are your thoughts?

Ephesians 6:12 ...'For we wrestle NOT against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.'

Pastor zomok

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  • I believe it to be speaking of a physical battle. All of my friends who have been to Israel can tell you just where it is going to take place. If the battle itself is only a picture then my mind would start thinking that all of the other events around that would be spiritual as well. The wrestling we face that is spoken of in Ephesians 6:12 is for us personally as it was for the christians in Ephesus in that day. Because it is a very different battle I don't think that you can take it to the battle in Revelation. Even though I am terrible at grasping the images in prophecy I tend to take them as they say and not "spiritualize" them. 

    • I am concerned with people going to far one way or the other. (not speaking of anyone here)  I am not one who wishes to spiritualize everything nor am I like many prophecy teachers today that seem to go into far fetched elaborations of symbols in scriptures.  I try to take an objective and holistic view.  Things spiritual will have counterparts in the physical world.  If we see "Babylon the Great" in Revelation we know it is about a false and evil system rather than the old Babylon in Iraq.   Likewise the "Mark of the Beast" in Revelation 13 is about beliefs and actions; not a computer chip.   It is a counterfeit to the The "Mark of the Lamb". With these thoughts in mind  I believe it very likely "Armageddon" is much like "Babylon" in Revelation, although actual battles may take place in the valley of Megiddo.   It is not an enormous place.

      • I find what we need to do when we look at prophesy, especially, what I call, heavy prophesy such as we get in Revelation and some of the OT end times prophesy, is to equate it with the physical.  From what I have read, the name 'Babylon' was already in use to describe a evil and sinful regime, so it is no surprise that it was used as such in scripture.

        If we look at the end times prophesy it is all focused on the second coming, and the lead up to the New Heaven and Earth, if we accept these as physical events, then surely we must accept other leading events as physical also.  We can also ask if Armageddon or the Valley of Jezzreel in a logical place for a battle, when we look at the maps we can see a definite possibility.

        As can be seen from the above mp the plain or valley is certainly large enough to accommodate a very large battle, but the next map shows its position is quite strategic.  The Mediterranean Sea to the west and the Arab nations to the north, East and south.

        Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and the West Bank all having direct access to Israel via this valley.  So the political position makes it a very possible location, which may be no coincidence that it includes Nazareth, Jesus' traditional home.

        As Michael Burris is fond of saying the physical lining up with the spiritual.  Maybe!

      • I'm with you Steve, I have a hard time with anyone going too far as well. My very simple mind says that "in the end, the Lord has got it all figured, HE WINS and will Have His way. He wants us to know what Revelation says and we can grow in our understanding of it but what is most important to me is that we be faithful today because regardless of how the battle is we need to share the truth as it is written with others. It's okay for me to say ... I don't know exactly what this means but it says...  The Mark of the Beast might not be computer chip but thinking about how computers are playing in the one world order we can see a little further.. do you know what I mean and it seems to be the number 666 that somehow people TAKE. I'm really a terrible one to enter a conversation like this one but it is all interesting.

  • You could well be right Steve, but there are a couple of things that point to a physical battle.  First among them is the identity of the battleground, Armageddon is a physical location, and unlike other Biblical place names, has been called by that name as far back as can be traced.  One other, among others, is the picture that John describes:

    9" they had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the noise of their wings was like the noise of many chariots with horses rushing into battle. 10 They have tails and stings like scorpions, and their power to hurt people for five months is in their tails.[Revelation 9:9-10]

    Having worked with helicopters in my early days, I can tell you that this is an amazing description of one, especially if you were a bronze-age man and had never even conceived of an aircraft.

    Right down to the crown?????

    • Even though I consider it a spiritual battle it could still have some physical aspects, however,  I do feel restrained in seeing modern machinery in Revelation.

  • "Look, I am coming soon! Blessed are those who obey the words of prophecy written in this book." (Revelation 22:7 NLT)

    The NLT translation spoke to me. First glance, there are 7 blessings in Revelation. I have to pay more attention to that. I'm kicking myself because I didn't notice it before. This is just my opinion, but to me it has always been a spiritual battle. Jesus Christ while here on earth treated Israel like the prisoners of war. Luke 4:18 has our Lord's own words. It's not something I grabbed out of thin air.

    "The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind, to set the oppressed free. (Luke 4:18 NIV)

    God bless,

    Mary

    • There's a battle going on for a long time, with prisoners of war. I just think we shouldn't be surprised there's a big battle whether physical, spiritual or both in the end times. I view it as the final curtain or final act, and that our God will have the last word.

      Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Ephesians 4:8 KJV)

      And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. (Colossians 2:15 NIV)

      I heard a translation that anything that has ever taken us captive, Jesus Christ has taken it captive. He's still freeing the captives. There's still a fight for human souls going on. I feel it comes to a head in the end times.

      God bless,

      Mary

    • Isaiah 61~~

      • This is a prophesy concerning the New Covenant, it is thought to be the portion of scripture that Jesus read in the Synagogue at Nazareth , which He applied to Himself.  But I don't get your point Steve.

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